Bornin China, Yingmei Duan is part of the Chinese avant-garde. She worked as apainter the legendary art district of Beijing’s East Village for many years. In1995 she participated in the performance ‘To add one meter to an anonymousmountain’, which is considered to be one of the classics of Chinese modern art.She became a pure performance artist under the influence of Marina Abramović,with whom she studied at the HBK Braunschweig in Germany from 2000 to 2004. Shealso worked with Christoph Schlingensief, filmmaker and action artist, for oneyear during her study.
段英梅1969年生于中国黑龙江省大庆市。1989年，她毕业于中国东北石油学院采油工程专业。1991年，她开始艺术创作。同时，她还先后在中央美术学院和中央工艺美术学院进修油画、壁画和雕塑专业。直到1998年，作为自由艺术家生活在北京。 期间，段英梅参加了创作和表演“北京东村” 艺术家的集体行为艺术作品《为无名山增高一米》，。其艺术创作转折点，是她2000年在德国布伦瑞克造型艺术学院学习期间，师从玛丽娜•阿布拉莫维奇（Marina Abramovic）学习行为艺术。行为艺术成了她创作的主要表达方式。同时，她还师从伯尔吉特·海因（Birgit Hein）学习电影艺术。
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ARTouch是一个与艺术和创意产业相关的非营利公益组织, 于2012年在伦敦创办。ARTouch从政治经济学以及发展学的视角关注在全球化背景下的中国人在英国创意产业中的发展状况。ARTouch完全依靠志愿者独立运行，致力于为在英国学习艺术的中国学生和来自不同背景的艺术从业者之间建立一个双向的，平等的，开放的对话平台。了解更多信息，请登陆www.artouch.org
ARTouch is anot-for-profit, volunteer-run organization, founded in London 2012. ARTouch isinterested in observing the development of Chinese in UK creative industrythrough political economy perspective and developmental approach, in thecontext of globalization. ARTouch is dedicated to developing an equal, two-wayand open dialogue mechanism between Chinese arts students who study in UK andarts practitioners with different backgrounds in creative industry. For moreinformation, please go to http://www.artouch.org/
Dialogue Duan Yingmei
ARTouch Observation:
ARTouchmet Yingmei at the exhibition of Art of Change: New Directions from China(Hayward Gallery, September 7th–December-9th, 2012),where she makes live performance (audio + installation) ‘Happy Yingmei’ everyday in the gallery. The exhibition ‘is the first major exhibition to focus oncontemporary installation and performance art from China. It brings togetherthe work of some of the most innovative artists from the 1980s to today.’ (SouthbankCentre, 2012)
The dialogueprovides a better insight on how a Chinese artist, especially in performingarts, makes a living and pursues her passion for arts in the global artsecosystem. The dialogue touches aspectsof ‘dealing with criticism’, ‘making ends meet’, ‘passion and curiosity forarts’, ’orientalism and western audiences’, ‘experiences on working withwestern arts institutions’, etc.
ARTouch观察：
ARTouch与段英梅在她来伦敦参加‘变化中的艺术：来自中国的新方向’（海沃德美术馆，南岸中心。2012年9月7日-12月9日）展览期间进行了一次对话。段英梅在展览期间，每天都英国海沃德美术馆内表演她的行为声音装置‘快乐的英梅’。这个展览是首次大型的关注中国当代装置和行为艺术的展览。参展艺术家是活跃在80年代至今的艺术家中最具有创新精神的一批代表。通过我们的对话可以进一步展示华人艺术家 （特别是行为艺术家）在西方国际化艺术环境中，如何生存，如何热情地追求着艺术。对话涉及到的话题包括，‘如何面对批评’，‘如何营生’， ‘对艺术的热情与好奇心’，‘东方主义与西方观众’，‘与西方艺术机构合作的经验’等。
我不是‘美术馆’型艺术家
我不是总在美术馆里做艺术的艺术家，虽然对这个空间也感兴趣。但我的很多作品都是在普通生活里做的，因为很自然，很朴实。而且这给我提供了更多的试验机会。比如我之前在德国的一家老医院里做了一个行为作品。那家老医院要拆迁了，在拆迁前他们做了一个有80多位艺术家参与的展览。我去看了，好多作品我都非常喜欢。我因此也去这家医院做了一个短暂的艺术家居留。在那个地方住了一个礼拜，睡在地铺上。说实话，晚上的时候还有点吓人。因为有的艺术作品看起来还是有点‘恐怖’的，呵呵，我晚上都不敢出门。我后来也创作了一个作品，在一间20多平米的屋子里，用一个医院用来推病患的车做了一个行为。我让来参观的观众躺在上面，闭上眼睛。参与者告诉我，‘英梅，你带着我们把整个医院都逛了一遍’，‘我仿佛在一个陌生的旅途上，不知道会发生什么’。艺术家一定得去尝试，尤其是行为艺术家。我个人认为做行为，现场经验是非常重要的，这是写多少方案都不能替代的。
西方的职业发展
我在德国生活和从事创作。我生活在德国的每一天都非常有创作激情。和很多欧洲的中国艺术家相比，虽然我也不了解西方的比如申请基金等体制，但我的机会非常多。我的机会不是来自于人际交往，而是来自于我的作品。我绝大多数时间都在创作作品。多数情况是，我正在做某个作品，有些人看到了我的作品，我可能就会被邀请参加另一个展览。至于申请基金，那个体制是非常繁琐的。在我看来，艺术家在欧洲参加展览不是很困难，机会很多，只要你去努力。而且只要你努力，你就会有机会 （参加展览，做新作品等）。当然我的很多行为作品不是在展览里做的，而是在普通的自然生活里发生的。我一直保持非常好的创作状态。我接到任何方案或邀请都非常有信心，因为我每天都在做。给我任何材料，场所我都能做创作。
如何面对批评和质疑？
我非常习惯这种批评。我所有的作品都有缺点，我喜欢有缺点的作品，不喜欢完美的作品。对我而言，缺点本身有一种美。在很多展览中，我的行为作品从展览第一天到展览结束都是在变的。我喜欢变化。第一，我喜欢这种尝试； 第二我喜欢破坏。即便我前一天的作品受到很多好评，第二天我也绝不重复，我喜欢破坏。
观众的批评和质疑也会反映在我的作品里。我喜欢倾听，也经常听别人的建议。我会去思考他们的批评和建议。我知道，任何人听到别人对自己作品的负面评价时，都会有些不舒服，但我对此很习惯。我有一次在爱莎托尼亚做一个行为展，我自己也感觉做的不是很好。当时有位观众就和我说，‘你人看起来挺漂亮，但作品我一点都不喜欢’。但我能接受，已经习惯了。而且一般情况下不会有人这么直接地去评评你的作品。不过没有批评就没有进步。我喜欢把自己赤裸裸展现给观众。有的时候，我知道自己做得不好，我也很难过。如果正好被一些观众看到了不好的表现，他们就会觉得这个艺术家不行。这也是很自然的事。如果一个人总是展现完美，那么她/他是害怕挑战。
怎么看待艾未未对这个展览的评价？ （艾未未，2012年9月10日在英国《卫报》上评论该展览：‘一个没有触及中国当代社会问题的展览，怎么能称之为中国当代艺术展？这就好比中国城餐馆卖的宫保鸡丁和咕噜肉，虽然食客知道这是中国菜，但仅仅是消费主义时代一个标准化的产物。无法借此理解当今真正的中国生活。’ 艺术是不是要反应当代社会问题？
我看了这个报道后第一个问号马上出现在我的脑海里“艾未未，你看到这个展览了吗?“,对我来说他的评价很无聊。我看了这个报道，艾未未说他对几乎所有参展的作品都很熟悉。但我相信他对我的作品并不了解。至于他说的没有反应当代中国社会问题，我想政治只是社会问题的一个方面。而且为什么中国当代艺术展就一定要和中国当代问题联系到一起呢？中国的展览不一定要和中国有关系。但事实上，我这次的行为作品‘快乐的英梅’在某种程度上也和中国当代问题是相关的。我在作品中会写一些小纸条给观众，有些内容就是和中国当代社会问题相关的。比如，‘你知道留守儿童吗？’(left-behind children).我会告诉他们什么是留守儿童。我自己对心理学比较感兴趣，我很关注这个群体的心理。再比如，我会问‘你想了解计划生育的这代孩子的想法吗？’等等。我不是一个做政治的艺术家，但我愿意把我的感受和观众分享。
艺术是不是道德的盲区？（9月13海沃德美术馆请来了苏富比艺术学院的Kate Hill为观众讲解变化中的艺术：来自中国的新方向展览。参观中，一些观众都对徐震的作品《饥饿的苏丹》，彭禹和孙原的《文明柱》作品表示不太能够接受。前者涉及到艺术作品对儿童的使用以及儿童权益；后者涉及到对人体脂肪的使用）
我认为艺术创作一定要受到道德的制约。
喜欢的和不喜欢的艺术家？
我比较喜欢同样参加这次展览的梁绍基。我对他的创作方式非常感兴趣，也很感动。他养蚕，以体会和感受的方式去创作。我能感受到他对这个过程的热爱。泰特现代美术馆正在展出Tino Siegel的行为作品。我本人不欣赏这样的艺术家。我喜欢带有试验性的作品。
如何理解当代艺术？
事实上，我从不思考这个问题。至于艺术的目的和意义，我不会去想什么所谓的意义和目的，我只想怎么去‘玩’，‘玩得好’。比如我以前在柏林参加秋季展，他们给了我一个350平米的空间，让我随便‘玩’。意义和目的不是必然。‘做 ’本身就说明了一切，艺术家就是应该去做。我个人不喜欢一些成名的艺术家整天在人际交往之中。
有人说，行为艺术比起绘画装置等是转瞬即逝的，是否同意
行为内部有巨大的能量，你越开发,能量越多。行为艺术其实和传统绘画是一样的，只不过材料不一样。身体是笔，空间是纸，但它是三维的。你可以加入各种各样的元素。我一开始的时候什么艺术种类都做，绘画，雕塑，版画等等。但我现在只专注于行为。
单纯依靠行为艺术能维持生计吗？
单纯依靠展览等收入还是比较了困难的。我个人对物质没有什么追求。而且我的亲人爱人都对我的创作非常支持。这点非常重要。我目前从来没卖过作品。我前两天在英国认识了一个研究哲学的中国朋友，他说我让他看到了艺术家对创作的激情，我就别想什么卖作品的事了，保持这种心态。我觉得他是非常真诚的。这句话对我来说就足够了。
I’m not ‘museum-type’ artist
I’m not the artist who always presentworks in museums or galleries, though I’m interested in those spaces as well. Manyof my works are done in daily life and nature, since everyday life and natureare more modest and simpler, and of more experiment opportunities. For example, I did a performing work in an oldhospital, which was to be demolished soon, in Germany. There were more than 80 artists took part in anexhibition held by the hospital before demolition. I visited the exhibition and found interestedby many artworks there. Therefore, I hada short-term artist residency. I slept on the floor for the whole week. I hardlywent out of my room in the night, you know, some artworks looked ‘horrifying’,especially in a hospital, during the night. I developed my work then. I asked my audiences to lie in a hospital trolleywhile closing their eyes in a 20 m² room. Some feedbacks are, ‘Yingmei, I feel as if youtour me around the whole hospital’, ‘I’m as if on a strange journey withunknown future’. Artists, especially for performing arts, must explore variouspossibilities. I think the experiences I get by doing is very crucial. Nomatter how many proposals you’ve written, you couldn’t get the experiencesuntil you really do it.
A career in the west
I live in Germany and develop me careeras an artist there. I’m full of the passion for creating arts every day. Compared to other Europe-based Chineseartists, even though I don’t have a better knowledge of fund application orwestern institutions, I do have many opportunities. My opportunities don’t come from socializingand networking, but from my works. Since I spend the majority of time on myworks, sometimes my works are known by someone, who will introduce my works tothe next opportunity. In terms of fundapplications from local institutions, it is not an easy thing for me. Theprocess is very complicated. However, Idon’t feel it hard to develop my career in the west as a Chinese artist. There are a lot opportunities (exhibitions, commissions,etc.), as long as you work hard enough. And some of performing artworks are not ingalleries or museums, but in our daily life and nature. I’m always in a verygood condition to develop my works. I feel confident in any kinds ofexhibitions or commissions, because I practise every day. I can do it with anymaterials, at any places.
Dealing with criticism
I’m used to criticism. There are defectsin all my works, but I just like works with defects. To me, defects are anotherkind of beauty. I love changing and dynamics. In some exhibitions, my work kept changingfrom the beginning of the exhibition to the last day of it. I enjoy trying variouspossibilities; and I’m also interested in destroying. Even when my work brought me a lot of positive comments, I would notrepeat it.
Criticism from my audiences usually willbe reflected in my works. I love listening to others, and always ask for suggestion.I know, nobody will be happy when he/she gets criticism, but I’ve got used toit. Once I didn’t do a good job in my performance in Estonia, and an audiencesaid to me, ‘you look beautiful, but your work doesn’t’. Well, it is not that often to receiving suchstrong and direct criticism. No criticism, no progress. I like to expose the truth to my audience.Sometimes I also feel very frustrated when I fail to do a good job. It is naturalthat audiences will take you as a ‘bad’ artist, when they just happen to see yourpoor performance. If the artist always wants to show the perfectness, I thinkshe/he is afraid of taking challenge.
How would you like to respond to Ai Weiwei’s critique toArt ofChange: New Directions from China (Hayward Gallery, September 7th–December-9th, 2012)? He said,‘How canyou have a show of "contemporary Chinese art" that doesn't address asingle one of the country's most pressing contemporary issues? It is like arestaurant in Chinatown that sells all the standard dishes, such as kung paochicken and sweet and sour pork. People will eat it and say it is Chinese, butit is simply a consumerist offering, providing little in the way of a genuineexperience of life in China today.’(September 10th, 2012,Guardian)
After reading his comments, I just wantto ask him,’ Have you seen this exhibition?’ I think his comments didn’t makeany sense. He said he is familiar with almost every piece of work at theexhibition. However, I don’t believe he is familiar with my works at all. ‘AddressingChina’s most pressing contemporary issues’ is just one aspect of contemporaryarts. And I would also ask why Chinese contemporary arts exhibition has to dealwith Chinese contemporary issues. Exhibitions by Chinese don’t necessarily berelated with Chinese elements. However, my work ‘Happy Yingmei’ actually hassomething to do with Chinese contemporary issues. During my performance, Iwrite some questions to my audience, such as ‘Do you know what left-behindchildren are (which means that one or both parents are working far away fromhome, usually in the city, and rarely spend time with the children. Thesechildren are usually taken care of by their grandparents in the rural area.) ?’And I will tell them what left-behind children are. I’m personally interestedin psychology, especially in the psychological impact on those children.Another example would be ‘Would you like to know how the generation ofone-child-policy think about themselves’. I’m not an artist doing politicalpop; I just want to share my feelings with my audiences.
Can arts be the grey area of morals and ethics? (13September: Dr Katie Hill from Sotheby’s Institute of Art led an exhibition tourin Hayward Gallery. Xu Zhen’s work ‘Starvingof Sudan’ (which involves children protection issues) and Sun Yuan & PengYu’s Work ‘Civilization’ (which usinghuman fat as the material) generated controversy and debates on whether arts couldbe the grey area of morals and ethics.
I think arts definitely should not betreated differently in terms of morals and ethics.
What kind ofartists do you like?
I like Liang Shaoji, who also takes partin our exhibition. I’m very interested in his process of developing his works,which is very touching. By keeping the silkworms himself, he develops his worksin an experimental approach. I can feel his love and passion. In terms of dislike, I would say the TinoSiegel， whose work is currently shown at Tate Modern. Well, I would say it is agood work, but it doesn’t attract me, because it is lack of experimentalapproach.
Contemporary arts
Actually I never think what contemporaryart is. I even don’t think about theso-called ‘meaning’ or ‘purpose’ of artworks. What I do think is ‘to play’ and ‘how to playcreatively’. The organizer of BerlinAutumn Exhibition once invited me to present my work there. They just providedme a space of 350 m² without telling me any ‘meaning’ or ‘purpose’. My task wasto play with the space creatively. ‘Meaning’ or ‘purpose’ is not a must to arts,but the practice itself. I think artistsshould keep practising. I don’t like those artists with a big name who immersethemselves in socializing and networking.
Some said performing arts is more easily forgotten tan‘traditional’ art forms, such as painting. How do you think?
This is huge power and energy insideperforming arts, it depends on how much you deploy. There is no much differencebetween performing arts and painting, but the materials. In performing arts,your body is the pen; and the space is the paper. And you can also add moreelements into this three-dimensional space. I started with all forms of arts,such as paintings, prints, and sculpture, etc. But now I only focus on performing arts.
Is it possible to make a living on the income ofperforming arts?
It is very difficult. Thanks to my family and my husband. Withouttheir support, it would not be possible. And I personally have got littlematerial demands. And I never sell myworks. I met a young man, who studiesPhilosophy, in London days ago. He told me that I make him see one artist’spassion for arts. He also told me that it would better not think too much onselling my works, but just focus on creating more works. It means so much forme.
Copyright@ARTouch; ARTouch拥有全部版权，转载或使用请注明出处。
ARTouch是一个与艺术和创意产业相关的非营利公益组织, 于2012年在伦敦创办。ARTouch从政治经济学以及发展学的视角关注在全球化背景下的中国人在英国创意产业中的发展状况。ARTouch完全依靠志愿者独立运行，致力于为在英国学习艺术的中国学生和来自不同背景的艺术从业者之间建立一个双向的，平等的，开放的对话平台。了解更多信息，请登陆www.artouch.org
ARTouch is anot-for-profit, volunteer-run organization, founded in London 2012. ARTouch isinterested in observing the development of Chinese in UK creative industrythrough political economy perspective and developmental approach, in thecontext of globalization. ARTouch is dedicated to developing an equal, two-wayand open dialogue mechanism between Chinese arts students who study in UK andarts practitioners with different backgrounds in creative industry. For moreinformation, please go to www.artouch.org
